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Post by arjan on Feb 24, 2010 10:24:28 GMT -5
The coach was so occupied in lap times and schedules that he didn't see Kramer change lanes, so he thought Kramer forgot. But a skater in a good trance like Kramer seemed to be shouldn't be paying attention to something his coach says. So yes, Kemkers made a huge mistake, but I also don't understand how Kramer could follow him so blindly.
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Post by arjan on Feb 24, 2010 10:29:13 GMT -5
Anyway. Tonight, 16 ladies in 8 races skating 5000 meters. The top favourite is Sablikova, normally challenged only by Beckert but she wasn't that good on the 3000. See if she'll re-find herself. 2 Dutch girls, Voorhuis and de Vries, skate with Beckert and Haugli for places 2-6 but the biggest outsider for a medal is of course defending champion Hughes from Canada. The rest probably is filler, though you never know if Hozumi or Grage have a great day. Or if something weird happens.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 14:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 14:30:49 GMT -5
The coach was so occupied in lap times and schedules that he didn't see Kramer change lanes, so he thought Kramer forgot. But a skater in a good trance like Kramer seemed to be shouldn't be paying attention to something his coach says. So yes, Kemkers made a huge mistake, but I also don't understand how Kramer could follow him so blindly. That's true, but it's just a split second reaction.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 14:39:49 GMT -5
Interview with Julia Mancuso. Question: "You are smoking hot. How do you keep the snow from melting around you?"
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 15:36:23 GMT -5
Anyway. Tonight, 16 ladies in 8 races skating 5000 meters. The top favourite is Sablikova, normally challenged only by Beckert but she wasn't that good on the 3000. See if she'll re-find herself. 2 Dutch girls, Voorhuis and de Vries, skate with Beckert and Haugli for places 2-6 but the biggest outsider for a medal is of course defending champion Hughes from Canada. The rest probably is filler, though you never know if Hozumi or Grage have a great day. Or if something weird happens. Thanks for the preview, Arjan.
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Post by arjan on Feb 24, 2010 16:42:27 GMT -5
Disappointing race by Elma de Vries. She skates 100km easy, totally different skills of course but she should be able to keep her rounds steady. Good race by Rookard and Voorhuis. Looking at the upcoming races, they may just or just not end in top 6 at the end, though I can't say much about the Japanese women.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 16:47:14 GMT -5
Sablikova seems to be the big favorite.
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Post by arjan on Feb 24, 2010 17:45:14 GMT -5
She was, and she did it. Good Olympics for Sablikova, gold twice and bronze. She won't be active in the pursuit as the czechs don't have 3 ladies for it.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 17:48:08 GMT -5
She was, and she did it. Good Olympics for Sablikova, gold twice and bronze. She won't be active in the pursuit as the czechs don't have 3 ladies for it. Exciting race really.
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Post by arjan on Feb 24, 2010 18:01:44 GMT -5
So, the Dutch won, in total: 3 gold (Kramer, Tuitert, Wüst) 1 silver (Gerritsen) 2 bronze (van Riessen, de Jong)
Now the pursuit, friday and saterday. Starts with the quarterfinals.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 20:16:59 GMT -5
So, the Dutch won, in total: 3 gold (Kramer, Tuitert, Wüst) 1 silver (Gerritsen) 2 bronze (van Riessen, de Jong) That's very impressive.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 24, 2010 20:18:57 GMT -5
Vonn 'bummed out' by rival Mancuso's 'popularity contest' claimsports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Vonn-bummed-out-by-rival-Mancuso-s-popularity?urn=oly,223895 The frosty relationship between American skiing stars Lindsey Vonn and Julia Mancuso may have grown a little more contentious Wednesday. Mancuso was flagged off the course during the women's giant slalom because she started while Vonn was trying to untangle herself from the netting after crashing in the previous run. This came after Mancuso took a shot at Vonn in a Sports Illustrated report that claimed the U.S. ski team was being hurt by "a popularity contest." "People are having a hard time reaching their potential because it's such a struggle for attention," Mancuso told Sports Illustrated. "You come to meetings after races and it's like it's a bad day if Lindsey didn't do well." Vonn, who told Reuters she was "bummed out" by Mancuso's statements, reiterated her support for her teammate. The tensions boiled over Wednesday after Mancuso left while Vonn was still on the course following her crash. She left at the correct one-minute start interval, but was flagged because Vonn had yet to clear and the racing conditions were unsafe. Mancuso was taken to the top of the mountain after her aborted run and had to wait for 13 more skiers before she could make her first official slalom. By then, conditions had deteriorated on the mountain, with snow and fog making the course much more treacherous. Mancuso ended up in 18th place before Wednesday afternoon's second run. Vonn had taken a turn too fast during her run, crashing on her left hip and tumbling into the safety netting. She broke her finger in the accident. Mancuso didn't know this and started before Vonn had extricated herself. The two-time Vancouver medalist was seen crying after the run and later Tweeted: "i was flagged in gs, that is [expletive]! well now its time to use that anger and fight scond run!!" (That message has since been taken down. The IOC could levy a fine for criticism of race officials.) Mancuso has not blamed Vonn for the issue, nor should she. It's not like Lindsey meant to fall, and it's certainly not Vonn's fault that she couldn't get herself out of the netting in time. But this incident adds another layer to a complicated relationship between the rivals. Some NBC viewers thought they saw iciness when the two were interviewed after finishing first and second in the downhill last week. Neither Vonn nor Mancuso praised each other during the chat, and Vonn looked perturbed when the reporter shifted focus from her to her teammate. And Yahoo!'s Charles Robinson noticed that the two barely spoke when they received their downhill medals. A recent New York Times article describes the pair as friends, but there's plenty of "read between the lines" stuff in the piece that suggests otherwise: • Vonn and Mancusco are described as the "yin and yang" of U.S. skiing. • Mancuso says, "We used to be good friends, but now we don't hang out as much." • When talking about Mancuso, Vonn is said to focus on their early days in junior skiing. • A former friend compared the relationship to that of Maverick and Iceman from the movie "Top Gun." It's been awhile since I saw that one, but I'm pretty sure the characters of Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer didn't get along until the final scene. (Although maybe the friend is referring to occasions when Vonn sang "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin'" and Mancuso did this.) It's a complicated dynamic between the old friends and current rivals. It only got more complicated Wednesday.
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Post by erik on Feb 24, 2010 22:27:27 GMT -5
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Post by arjan on Feb 25, 2010 2:15:25 GMT -5
It's not uncommon in sports of course. Davis and Hedrick wont become friends, in Germany there's always been a rivalry between Pechstein and Friesinger, in Holland it's safe to say Kramer and De Jong are not really friends...
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 5:19:43 GMT -5
Although it's sad on a personal level, it's a good thing for the sport as a whole. Fans want to see rivalries: Ali vs Frazier, Evert vs Navratilova, Federer vs Nadal, Comaneci vs Korbut, Kerrigan vs Harding, Tyson vs Holyfield, Lewis vs Johnson - whenever there's a good rivalry going on people take notice. I don't choose sides in the Vonn vs Mancuso thing. The're both great and although it shouldn't matter, "both are so hot that I wonder how they keep the snow from melting around them." Having said that, it would be wrong for Mancuso to blame Vonn for falling. I'm sure that Lindsey wouldn't ruin her own chances just to ruin those of her rival as well. But so far Julia hasn't made any such comments, and I don't expect that she will.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 5:33:00 GMT -5
I would just like to add that I understand that Mancuso is angry. They should have given her the time to get back up the hill and let her ski next instead of letting all those others ski in the meantime and cut up the piste and thus slow it down further than would have been the case if Mancuso had been able to ski as scheduled. To do that would have required a very long break in the action, but for the sake of fairness they nevertheless should have done that. It's their own fault - not Mancuso's (or Vonn's for that matter), because they should have prevented her from starting before the coast was clear.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 6:00:09 GMT -5
Bad breaks: Lindsey Vonn's crash costs rival Julia Mancuso shot at another gold in giant slalom www.twincities.com/sports/ci_14466713?source=rssWHISTLER, British Columbia — Lindsey Vonn didn't intentionally sabotage Julia Mancuso's bid to defend her Olympic giant slalom title by crashing Wednesday, and breaking a finger in the process, but that may be the effect of her misfortune. In an improbable sequence of events that unfolded against the backdrop of a long rivalry between the 25-year-old racers, Vonn crashed on her first run near the bottom of the course while Mancuso was on course above her. It was random luck of the draw that Vonn started 17th and Mancuso 18th. But when Vonn crashed, Mancuso was "flagged" as a safety precaution, meaning she had to stop and return to the start for a re-run. "That was probably the worst possible thing that could happen in the Olympics — to get flagged, defending your gold medal," Mancuso said. "It's probably the most unexpected thing ever." Mancuso ran 31st with tired legs on a course that was deteriorating rapidly, and she finished 18th — 1.3 seconds behind pacesetter Elisabeth Goergl of Austria. That's a lot of time to make up on the second run. At least Mancuso got extra time to rest. The second run scheduled Wednesday afternoon was postponed until this morning because of fog. "It just doesn't seem right," Mancuso said of her rerun. Vonn, who broke a bone in the pinkie finger of her right hand, was apologetic. "I feel terrible for Julia," said Vonn, a St. Paul native. "I wanted to finish, I wanted to have a good run, and by no means did I want that to happen to Julia. With the course conditions deteriorating the way they were, it was really difficult for her to come down with a fast time. I really hope she can ski the way she's been skiing and have a good second run." There was more to the story than Mancuso's anger over her bad luck, however. Vonn and Mancuso have been rivals since they were promising young juniors, and Mancuso has been expressing resentment over the attention Vonn has received. "If you're not paying attention to me, you're just missing out," Mancuso said three days before the Olympics began. And in an interview with Sports Illustrated over the weekend, she objected to the "popularity contest" she apparently thought she was losing to Vonn. She added: "People are having a hard time reaching their potential because it's such a struggle for attention. You come to meetings after races, and it's like it's a bad day if Lindsey didn't do well." Mancuso wouldn't elaborate Wednesday afternoon, saying, "I'm just interested in answering questions about the GS right now." But Vonn let it be known she didn't appreciate what Mancuso said. "I try to support Julia as much as I support all the other teammates," Vonn said when asked about Mancuso's remarks. "I've been racing with Julia since I was a little kid. Yes, we're competitors, but I always support her. It definitely has hurt me that she has said some negative things about me.'' Since winning the giant slalom at the Turin Games, Mancuso has struggled while Vonn has dominated. Vonn won two World Cup overall titles (and leads in the standings again this season), four World Cup discipline titles and two world championship gold medals. Mancuso has never finished higher than third on the World Cup and has never won a discipline title or a world title. "Lindsey doesn't decide if Lindsey gets the attention," said Vonn's husband, Thomas. "It's not like Lindsey slipped everybody $100 to write a story about her. She skied well coming in. When you ski well coming into an Olympics, you're going to get more attention." Both racers have claimed two medals here: Vonn gold and bronze, Mancuso two silver. Thomas Vonn said his wife was "definitely" upset by Mancuso's comments. "She's always cheered for Julia and been happy for her when she's done well," Thomas Vonn said. "She's wondering where it's coming from."
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 6:05:48 GMT -5
Talk of Vancouver: Sven Kramer apologizes after outburst www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/vancouver/2010-02-24-talk-of-vancouver-thusday_N.htmBy Steve Wieberg, USA TODAY VANCOUVER — Dutch speedskating superstar Sven Kramer tried to move on Wednesday. "It is not going to help anyone if I tear the whole place down," he said a day after his stunning disqualification from the 10,000-meter long-track race he was heavily favored to win. His coach, Gerard Kemkers, misadvised him on a lane change after 17 laps of the grueling, 25-lap event, and officials disallowed the result after Kramer completed the race — and appeared to have easily won. "I am not the person that will stay angry for a long time. It is not going to help me, the team or Gerard," said Kramer, the world's most dominant long-distance speedskater, who earlier in the Games won gold in the men's 5,000 meters. "It happened and it is really sad, but we are not getting that medal from Korea (and Lee Seung-Hoon) back." Kramer will apologize and give a small gift to an Olympic volunteer he pushed aside in anger after the race. He'll again go after his second Vancouver gold in the team pursuit Friday and Saturday. Kemkers, the USA's speedskating coach at the Nagano Games in 1998, took the blame for one of most glaring mistakes in Olympic history. "More often than not, everything works out fine," he said. "This time it didn't, with terrible consequences. If that gives people the image of me as a scapegoat, I guess I just have to swallow that."
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Post by egoodstein on Feb 25, 2010 11:29:08 GMT -5
Bad break for Mancuso-- but yeah not Vonn's fault. I just wanted to say while I haven't seen that much of Olympics-- esp. last few days as very busy, but I really did enjoy the ice dance final dance by the Canadian winners (to a bit of Mahler's 5th Symphony)-- very beautiful. & yeah I do hope the Canadian girl whose mom died gets a medal . I've liked some of the hockey I've seen too-- more than I expected in fact, maybe 'coz US team has had a better run than expected. Ed
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Post by arjan on Feb 25, 2010 12:34:56 GMT -5
About the rivalry, you can also say that one needs the other as extra motivation to give their best. Not the best example with the last results in mind, but Kramer has a strong motivator in Bob de Jong as someone he always wants to beat. Same goes for Fabris, while Kramer is good friends with Bøkko.
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Post by arjan on Feb 25, 2010 12:42:32 GMT -5
"More often than not, everything works out fine," he said. "This time it didn't, with terrible consequences. If that gives people the image of me as a scapegoat, I guess I just have to swallow that." Of course in this case Kemkers is to blame. Kramer lost a gold medal because of Kemkers. But how much did he win because of Kemkers. He won gold on the 5k. He's multi-European Champion and multi World champion all round and on the 5k and 10k. Kemkers is also the coach of Wüst who won gold 4 years ago on the 3k and this year on the 1500m and is also multi European Champion and multi World champion all round. He's the coach of Groenewold, van Deutekom, Verheyen, Wennemars who had so much success in the past years. Ok, this year and also last year there were doubts as a lot of regular top athletes didn't seem to get their top. Looking at how many of his pupils got to the Olympics it's a bit dissapointing (also a lot of credits to Orie who is the coach or rivals like Gerritsen, Timmer, van Riessen, Boer, Tuitert, Groothuis, Kuipers) but the ones who did make it had great successes (well except Groenewold but with reason, plus she probably gets a new chance at the pursuit). So yes, Kemkers screwed up but to let him go for one error after so much success, I don't think so.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 12:58:23 GMT -5
About the rivalry, you can also say that one needs the other as extra motivation to give their best. Not the best example with the last results in mind, I'm not a specialist by any means, but I think that alpine skiing is such a high risk sport that even the best can't be expected to win all the time. It just means that they win more often than the others.
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Post by jhar26 on Feb 25, 2010 18:14:16 GMT -5
"More often than not, everything works out fine," he said. "This time it didn't, with terrible consequences. If that gives people the image of me as a scapegoat, I guess I just have to swallow that." Of course in this case Kemkers is to blame. Kramer lost a gold medal because of Kemkers. But how much did he win because of Kemkers. He won gold on the 5k. He's multi-European Champion and multi World champion all round and on the 5k and 10k. Kemkers is also the coach of Wüst who won gold 4 years ago on the 3k and this year on the 1500m and is also multi European Champion and multi World champion all round. He's the coach of Groenewold, van Deutekom, Verheyen, Wennemars who had so much success in the past years. Ok, this year and also last year there were doubts as a lot of regular top athletes didn't seem to get their top. Looking at how many of his pupils got to the Olympics it's a bit dissapointing (also a lot of credits to Orie who is the coach or rivals like Gerritsen, Timmer, van Riessen, Boer, Tuitert, Groothuis, Kuipers) but the ones who did make it had great successes (well except Groenewold but with reason, plus she probably gets a new chance at the pursuit). So yes, Kemkers screwed up but to let him go for one error after so much success, I don't think so. They (including Kramer) should continue to work with Kemkers. He won't make a mistake like that ever again, so there's no point in getting rid of him. He's obviously a great coach.
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Post by erik on Feb 25, 2010 21:58:54 GMT -5
Quote by jhar26: And the same holds true for almost every other event in these games, with the obvious exception of curling of course . But you've got to hand it to anyone, man or woman, who dares to shoot down a winding alpine race course of 7000 horizontal feet in length at speeds approaching 60 miles an hour, knowing that one minor miscalculation can be (literally) fatal.
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