The Political Poll

[jhar26]

What applies to you?

Gaston

[erik]

I consider myself an independent thinker--actually being able to agree with conservatives on some principles (the acting out on those principles is where I have a problem), and liberals on others. I am proud of America, but I'm not one of those "my country, right or wrong" types. America may be the greatest nation in the world, but I know we can be better too.

[robertaxel]

Interesting thread, but the whole concept of 'left' and right' is a bit anachronistic.. It dates from the French parliament circa 1790 where the nobility and landed gentry sat on the right side of the hall, and the 'every day' or 'peasant' classes sat on the left.. The world has changed a bit since then... I think :}

Robert

[jhar26]

I'm definitely a leftie, although I'm sure there are a few issues where I lean towards the centre. I don't think anyone is 100% one or the other. But on the main topics (equal rights for men and women, the rich must take care of the poor, wars are the ultimate crime, etc..) I'm left.

Gaston

[erik]

I definitely agree about women's rights and taking care of the poor.

With respect to war--you know, I wish we could eliminate that from the scene forever, but such is the nature of our entire species to kill, and to justify war via politics and religion, that it may unfortunately be impossible to do. That may be a pessimistic assessment, but I think it is the reality of today.

[Andrew]

robertaxel said:

Interesting thread, but the whole concept of 'left' and right' is a bit anachronistic.. It dates from the French parliament circa 1790 where the nobility and landed gentry sat on the right side of the hall, and the 'every day' or 'peasant' classes sat on the left.. The world has changed a bit since then... I think :}

Robert

Ja, but of course, as the world changed, so did the designations. We could use "left" to mean "commie" (at the extreme) and extreme right to mean fascist, but that isn't how it's used anymore either.

By the way, I voted myself as "extreme left." I don't think I'm a coummunist though.

[jhar26]

erik said:

I definitely agree about women's rights and taking care of the poor.

With respect to war--you know, I wish we could eliminate that from the scene forever, but such is the nature of our entire species to kill, and to justify war via politics and religion, that it may unfortunately be impossible to do. That may be a pessimistic assessment, but I think it is the reality of today.

Yep, and it will ultimately be the end of us all. That and/or our lack of respect for the environment. We as a species are self-destructive and arrogant.

Gaston

[arjan]

Given the fact that there's a lot of differences in politics between US and Holland, as that the conservatives here would probably be called 'left' in the US and the socialist and green parties be moved to the further left....
Given that in Holland I always vote for one the most left parties that still get seats in the parliament....
I just call myswelf an extreme-left. With my ideas I probably would be called a communist in the US. And maybethey would be right too (as long as you don't confuse the communist ideas with the commusist regimes in the former Sovjet replublic and China).

[jhar26]

arjan said:

Given the fact that there's a lot of differences in politics between US and Holland, as that the conservatives here would probably be called 'left' in the US and the socialist and green parties be moved to the further left....

;D Good point, Arjan. What we call the centre is really the left in the US. What is the centre in the US are the conservatives over here. And the moderate conservatives in the US would in our countries be members of extremist parties such as Vlaams Belang (formerly Vlaams Blok).

Gaston

[robertaxel]

arjan said:

....
I just call myswelf an extreme-left. With my ideas I probably would be called a communist in the US. And maybethey would be right too (as long as you don't confuse the communist ideas with the commusist regimes in the former Sovjet replublic and China).

I think the 'Communist' regimes in China and most definitely Cuba are more accurately autocratic... they subverted the concept to impose their own rule... then again 'democracy' in the US has become more of a 'corporateocracy'

peace..

Robert

[bluesron]

I have been a informal student of all things political since I was 12
(my dad says long before that). The men outside of my father who i considered my mentors were all Republicans and I was a Teenage Area Republican for Nixon in Knox county in the 68 election working as volunteer at campaign headquarters. i supported both Nixon and the War though my views changed about Vietnam I supported Nixon right up until the day he resigned. I had several faculty members in the high schhol civics /history department waiting to grin at me on the first day of school in September 1974.

In October i turned and 18 and instead of heading for the State liquor store for my State I.D. card (you could legally drink at 18 then) I went and dug out my civics teacher who was also a Notary and he registered me to vote and officially registered me in the Republican Party. I supported Republican candidates and causes up until 1980 when faced with the terrible realization that the party was going to nominte that second rate B-movie actor Reagan and not being a Carter fan I threw my allegiance to John Anderson. I thought the American voters couldn't possibly stupid enough to vote for Reagan and my vote was basically symbolic and could still criticize Carter for four more years. Wrong!

After the inauguration i started to realize my worse fears as the results of the "Southern strategy" began to bloom as my beloved Republican party began to change as the new voices of the party became the racists, biblethumpers, gun nuts of the South and Western states and the voices of reason and moderation I remembered on social issues became lost in the right-wing/'old time religion' vitriol.

Rather than fight a losing cause, which remains a losing cause still today, I left the party and joined the Democrats in 1982. I found myself moving more to the left of center, I am frugal about taxes (make the rich pay, they make most of the money and can afford it) and don't waste the money you got (food stamps and medical care for the most needy and schools are not government waste). I am anti war when the war is immoral and unjustified, but being a veteran, I am pro military and honor my comrades and those who went before me and came after me. I am 100 percent behind equal rights, gay rights, civil liberties and the right for a woman to make her own decisions when it comes to reproduction. and i believe that in order to have these rights you also have certain responsibilities llike voting and staying informed.

I am a card carrying member of the ACLU and a progressive Christian who believes in the teachings if not the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth and could care less about the Old Testament or the Book of Revelations. I am also a staunch defender of Jefferson's Wall of Seperation, but believe more liberal Christian voices need to be heard in the public square and in the halls of government. I am also one of those people who truly believe there are two sides to the Middle East crisis and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (which will definitely put me on opposite sides with Ben lol, but who cares?)

So i guess after all of this you can call me a liberal, but one whose knees don't jerk. lol

Ron

[jhar26]

Great post, Ron.

Gaston

[erik]

I think Ron's post also points out to a very good degree just how crazy and polarized politics tend to be here in America. A lot of that polarization is based on religion or supposed lack thereof.

I have often lamented the fact that people like Ron who are good Christians with solid social and political ideas based upon the realities of the world are so often drowned out in the media by those who would pervert Christianity and The Good Book for political ends and fear-mongering. These macho men (sometimes women, like Ann Coulter), by their own actions and their own words, have dangerous parallels with the Islamists who attacked America on 9/11, and the fact that the media gives any air time to these extremist nutjobs in the first place, while not letting common sense Christians point out a few simple truths, sickens me no end.

I fear for my country. But I still love it. And I think the day will come when common sense Christians like Ron will have their time to re-establish America as a true shining beacon for freedom around the world.

[Antonio]

I guess I've to put myself in the left. As Arjan pointed out, I would probably be considered as extreme left in the USA. Lately, here in Italy, even the parties regarded as extreme left are quite moderate and it almost makes me laugh to call our prime minister Prodi a leftist.
On the other hand, the right parties here are quite despicable and have nothing to do with liberalism.

[brendywendy]

;)I VOTED CENTER..THOUGH I TEND TO PULL TO THE LEFT...BUT, I TRY TO WEIGH ALL SIDES FAIRLY....I CAN BE WISHY WASHY, IF I HEAR A GOOD ARGUMENT FROM BOTH SIDES.....I JUST HOPE FOR THE BEST....I USUALLY VOTE DEMOCRAT, BUT MAKES NO DIFF DOWN HERE IN THE DEEP SOUTH IN MISSISSIPP....IT'S FRUSTRATING...I WISH THAT THE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT WAS WERE EACH VOTE COUNTED THE SAME AND THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE WHOEVER WON THE POPULAR VOTE...I GUESS THE USSR FALTERED, THINGS CHANGE, MAYBE IT'S POSSIBLE SOMEDAY MISSISSIPPI WILL VOTE FOR A DEMOCRATIC OR INDEPENDENT FOR PRESIDENT, BUT I DOUBT IN MY LIFE TIME....

admin said:

What applies to you?

Gaston

[robertaxel]

brendywendy said:

SOMEDAY MISSISSIPPI WILL VOTE
FOR A DEMOCRATIC OR INDEPENDENT FOR PRESIDENT, BUT I DOUBT IN MY LIFE TIME ]

Actually Mississippi, along with the rest of the deep South used to vote heavily Democratic until the Republicans began their cynical manipulation of voters by playing on their fears starting in the 80s..

[erik]

Quote by robertaxel:

Actually Mississippi, along with the rest of the deep South used to vote heavily Democratic until the Republicans began their cynical manipulation of voters by playing on their fears starting in the 80s..

It may have started even sooner than that--probably in the 1960s, when those who had supported George Wallace and other far-right politicos took it to the mainstream and guaranteed a victory for the Nixon/Agnew ticket in 1968. Since then, there hasn't been one administration where either the president or vice-president wasn't from the South (though it has to be said that both Bush Sr. and Dubya are really carpetbaggers, both having been born in Connecticut instead of Texas).

[bluesron]

erik said:

Quote by robertaxel:

Actually Mississippi, along with the rest of the deep South used to vote heavily Democratic until the Republicans began their cynical manipulation of voters by playing on their fears starting in the 80s..

It may have started even sooner than that--probably in the 1960s, when those who had supported George Wallace and other far-right politicos took it to the mainstream and guaranteed a victory for the Nixon/Agnew ticket in 1968. Since then, there hasn't been one administration where either the president or vice-president wasn't from the South (though it has to be said that both Bush Sr. and Dubya are really carpetbaggers, both having been born in Connecticut instead of Texas).

Actually Wallace's candidacy was more of the South's way of punishing Johnson and the Democratic Party for the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act than it was an endorsement of Nixon and the Republicans in 1968. The "southern strategy" started in the the 1972 campaign but kind of got derailed by Carter's election in 1976.

The 1980 Reagan campaign was actually the first Republican ticket to reap the full benefit of the 'southern strategy" by appealing to moral and racial 'concerns' of southern voters. The fact that he announced his candidacy in the same Mississippi county that was the scene of the murders of three civil rights workers in the 60s, that was depicted in the film ''Mississippi Burning", is testimony to this fact.

ron

[Andrew]

arjan said:

Given the fact that there's a lot of differences in politics between US and Holland, as that the conservatives here would probably be called 'left' in the US and the socialist and green parties be moved to the further left....
Given that in Holland I always vote for one the most left parties that still get seats in the parliament....
I just call myswelf an extreme-left. With my ideas I probably would be called a communist in the US. And maybethey would be right too (as long as you don't confuse the communist ideas with the commusist regimes in the former Sovjet replublic and China).

There is much about Communism I agree about as well. I don't know enough to self-identify that way, however, and I do believe that confusion regarding cultures and definitions were what made the American side of the cold war such a terrible thing...countries wishing to be independent were labelled communist by the paranoid American government and therefore we had things like Vietnam going on.

[ronstadtfanaz]

I am just left of Linda Ronstadt.

[babyblue]

As an American, I put myself to the Left. Interesting comment that this may be considered differently in another country. I think what is going on in the US is a disgrace. I am happy and pleased to learn that for the most part Americans are liked abroad, it's just our politics that are hated, or do I have blinders on?

Hopefully things will be better in two years when Bush is FINALLY out of office. I still fear a future Bush Dynasty. It does not look promising for baby brother, Jeb Bush to run in two years. Jeb Bush is currently the Governor of the State I live in, Florida. However, things change quickly, there might be a different story in six years for another Bush to run. I also heard that Laura Bush might be interested in running for President in the future. One can only hope this is the end of the Bush Family holding any office. At the moment, I don't believe any Bush could/would be elected dog catcher!

Marty

[jhar26]

babyblue said:

One can only hope this is the end of the Bush Family holding any office. At the moment, I don't believe any Bush could/would be elected dog catcher!

Marty

Let's hope so, Marty. But one can never be sure. Two weeks is an eternity in politics, let alone two years.

Gaston

[babyblue]

You sure got that right, Gaston

Marty

admin said:

babyblue said:

One can only hope this is the end of the Bush Family holding any office. At the moment, I don't believe any Bush could/would be elected dog catcher!

Marty

Let's hope so, Marty. But one can never be sure. Two weeks is an eternity in politics, let alone two years.

Gaston

[egoodstein]

I am probably to the right of many folks here politically, but think of myself as 'centrist.' Much
bugs me 'bout both ends of the political spectrum. In this country, both major parties are really much closer in thought-- & actions-- than apart. This has advantages & disadvantages--main disadvantage is nothing much changes. But when it comes to politicians, 'don't just do something, stand there' isn't necessarily bad . Also once they get to Washington, 'Potomac fever' sets in & it seems a race to see who can spend the most money on the most foolishness the soonest ;D. Not that that's new. I'm sort of an anarchist really-- though of course that's an impossible 'ideal.' I've voted for candidates from both major parties & independents too over the years. I'm sort of of the opinion that you must try to 'act locally/think globally' or something. I've worked on some small local issues with people of really varied
political persuasions to try to get some local issues resolved-- mostly in my case involving school issues & building nearby. This has had the most success. Ed

[jhar26]

egoodstein said:

I am probably to the right of many folks here politically, but think of myself as 'centrist.'..... I'm sort of an anarchist really.
Ed

A centrist anarchist, that's a category I hadn't considered as a poll option, sorry 'bout that, Ed. ;D

Gaston